I have created this web page to show the engine I will supply for you. I will keep molding it until we arrive at the final combination.
I have been exploring our options.
Typically I use a lot of used blocks as they are suitable for most applications and save money, but I don't want to do that for you because the sources are less reliable, but mainly because you are building new cars and the engine should be 100% brand new.
I have looked at the LS engines GM offers as a starting place as price is very important, and 450bhp should not be difficult requiring exotic parts.
The engine I would build would use an LS2 4" bore block, 4" fordged steel crank (402cid 6.6L) 4340 rods with 7/16 bolts and forged pistons and cost more than this possible combination.
A GM built engine would have a cast iron crank, pressed powder rods and cast pistons.
This combination SHOULD be strong enough to 6500rpm, my combination would be overly strong.
The best package for price as of right now, BUT is a limited supply, is the last of the LS 6 long blocks.
There are 645 available (11/07/06), but 3 were sold while I was on the phone with GM. I esitmate they will be available till June 2007, unless someone bulk buys them.
The motor 12498399 sells for $5300, I can get a deal on them and can sell it to you for $4000.
Once this motor is gone I expect we would shift into basiclly the same thing in an LS2
GM LIST: $7,329.61 BackDraft Price $4000
DESCRIPTION: ENG KIT LS6 Service Engine with Camaro Oil Pan Kit This is a long block for a 2001-03 corvette RPO LS6 with 5.7L and 405 horsepower, which includes a Camaro oil pan assembly in the crate. The long block includes the corvette oil pan and for 97-2002 Camaro Technical Notes: This engine assembly includes an aluminum block, aluminum heads, crankshaft, rods, pistons, valve train, camshaft, valve covers, and an oil pan.
It does not include intake manifold, exhaust manifolds, balancer, flywheel, throttle body, or any electronics.
To add better rods $400, forged pistons $500, (rings $100), crank $950, any of these changes will require rebalancing the crankshaft $150 and rebuilding labor $400
LS1 Eagle Forged 4340 Crank$1000
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3.900" 4.00" 4.100" Strokes - With Reluctor
Forged 4340 steel Non-twist forging Multi-stage Heat treated
X-rayed, Magnafluxed & Sonic tested Stress relieved & Shot peened
.125 fillet Radius Rod pins drilled for lightening Nitrited journals
Gundrilled for weight savings Chamfered oil holes
Pro I-Beam 6.125" 4340 7/16 Rods $400
MAHLE FORGED PISTONS $500
We would either regrind the cam (subject to researching how deep the harden surface is)
or new cam $450.
Because this engine price is so good the small 5.3 engine and the iron block LQ9 are not cheaper although I can sell you this complete LQ9
for $4000. 6.0L 345bhp @ 5200rpm 380TQ @ 4000rpm. Ugly looking EFI
The issue with using an off the shelf GM motor is we are relying on the GM parts and labor. I am confident they will be fine, but I can not know for sure. You must decide if you will take the chance or spend more money to over build with strenght.
Because this engine comes without the fuel injection we have four options.
Top of the line LS type EFI.
Factory EFI
Mass-Flo EFI
Carburetor.
The carb will be the cheapest.
Two manifolds are available.
Currently the duel plenum manifold which favors torque comes as a complete conversion kit, but I am talking to Edelbrock about buy the manifold alone. If we went with a carb set up we would want to test both manifolds in the car to see which performs better.
This Edelbrock Victor Jr. LS1 EFI Intake Manifolds are a high-rise single plane design capable of supporting up to 600 hp. Like the Edelbrock Performer RPM LS1 intakes, these Victor Jr. LS1 EFI manifolds accept a standard flange throttle body. $350
PRO-67200 Proform/Holley Mechanical Secondaries $520 or other options for brands.
Personally I favor the Mass-Flo EFI system which makes more power than the GM LS EFI, looks more conventional having a carburetor type air cleaner. It come with a Mass Airflow Senor making it more flexable for air conditions without every requiring recalibration or tune up.
It needs a distributor & front cover 88958679
Front Cover for distributor $450
Mas-Flo EFI system No tuning reqired $4000
System includes:
Victor Jr Intake manifold like the one above.
Custom made 1000 CFM 4bbl throttle body. It features all aluminum and stainless steel construction, sealed ball bearings on the throttle shafts, and progressive linkage. Comes complete with idle control motor and throttle position sensor. This is absolutely the finest 4 bbl throttle body on the market!
Jumbo fuel rails and mounts. Rails have 9/16" diameter bores providing excellent flow and dampening characteristics.
Custom made compact high flow mass air meter (Patent pending). The air meter is concealed within the air cleaner of your choice to maintain the vintage look!
Complete stand alone wiring harness. This high quality harness allows easy installation of EFI into any vehicle without connecting to your existing harness.
Production mass air computer.
Eight high quality fuel injectors. These fuel injectors are held to much closer tolerance than typical production injectors.
All needed sensors. Most of the sensors are mounted right on the injection system for a simple install. No crank sensor to complicate the process!
High performance billet aluminum distributor complete with ignition module. The entire ignition system is contained within the distributor and ECM. Just install the distributor and plug it into the harness. No spark boxes to install!
High performance coil, with heat sink/mounting bracket.
Base gasket, throttle cable bracket, assorted hardware and fittings necessary for the installation, PCV valve, instructions.
110 gallon/hr external style electric fuel pump
High flow pre-filter to protect the fuel pump.
High flow 5 micron fuel filter.
We still need a coil, and you might want to add a multi spark with a rev limiter.
MSD-8207 $50
When used with an MSD 6 Series ignition, these MSD Blaster SS coils delivered 300 milliamps and 40,000 V of spark. The coils feature efficient E-core windings, brass terminals, and a durable Rynite housing.
MSD-6420 $250
These MSD 6AL ignitions are the perfect choice for the street or the track. The powerful capacitive discharge, multiple sparks ensure complete combustion of the air/fuel mixture to increase power and performance. MSD has taken the proven performance of the 6A and added a rev limiter. The soft touch rev control will protect your engine from overrevving. Adjustments are easily made with plug-in modules, so there are no dials, switches, or programs to deal with. At your selected rpm, the soft touch begins dropping the spark to some of the cylinders, and on the next cycle, these same cylinders are fired to prevent loading up with fuel. The result is a smooth and accurate limiting action without backfires or roughness. They'll work with virtually any 4, 6, or 8-cylinder vehicle with a distributor, as long as it has a 12-18 V electrical system. They include rubber shock mounts and modules for 3,000, 6,000, 7,000, and 8,000 rpm.
Because we would be using a distributor and signal coil instead of multi-coils it will look nicer with other valve covers. GM has these, but I would like to see if I can find another cover that we can put your logo on.
Valve Covers $270
The LS7 dry sump oil pan and pump will be the lowest price option. If you want something an external pump and fabricated pan, we could spend $1500 to $2000. Seems to me the GM system would be fine.
LS7 Oil Pan $350
LS7 Dry Sump Oil Pump $250
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GM 4V Carb /Throttle Body Manifold $450
This Mallory HEI distributor with coil is all you need. The other distributor are just better technology, I don't think it will really make the car any faster, especially for the street with a 450 horse motor.
MAA-8555101C $190
These new 85 Series HEI distributors from Mallory feature a CNC-machined cast 356 T-6 aluminum upper housing with a billet lower housing for lightweight durability. They include Mallory's new mechanical advance mechanism and adjustable vacuum advance, and come with a red cap and rotor with brass inserts. They're direct plug-in replacements with OE factory-type harness connectors, and are available with or without Mallory's high-performance coil. You can also get them in a Race Prepped version that features locked-out mechanical advance, locked-out vacuum advance with the chamber removed, and a complete advance weight and spring kit to allow for mechanical advance conversion.
CRN-1000-1601 $340
Crane has taken their years of automotive knowledge and applied them to these billet distributors. They feature a rugged billet 6061-T6 aluminum lower housing, a stainless steel photo-chemically etched trigger disc that eliminates flex and corrosion, an aircraft-quality upper bearing for long life and precision alignment, a composite lower housing bearing that holds true alignment, and solid brass cap terminals to ensure maximum current conductivity. They are also fully urethane-sealed against dirt, oil, and moisture, and don't have weights or springs to wear out or break. As if this weren't enough, the distributors also have a magnetic trigger that works with most Crane ignitions and many others. Add to that nine electronically programmed "mechanical" advance curves and three electronically programmed "vacuum" advance curves, plus the "zero" position that provides an advance lockout for crank trigger ignitions. A built-in precision MAP sensor, a race-proven optical trigger for precise firing and reliability, and accuracy to +/- .5 degrees at all rpm levels are all added bonuses from Crane. These features make for spectacular, maintenance-free distributors that are at home in street, race, marine, and off-road applications.
CRN-6000-6301 $190
Crane's HI-6S ignition and coil kits will give you up to 70 percent more spark-gap energy than stock ignitions. Designed for street and racing use, they come with Crane's "Plug-n-Go" universal harness to cover most installations, with optional harnesses available separately. With a max output of 8,000 rpm (can be extended to 10,000 rpm on 4-cylinder engines) for up to 9.5:1 compression engines, you'll be sure to feel the improvement. Their built-in rev limiter automatically drops cylinders in firing order to prevent fuel loading, and is adjustable from 3,100-9,900 rpm in 100-rpm increments, without any chips. The optional 0-20 degree adjustable timing retard and MAP sensor make a great combination for nitrous and turbo applications. They have a soft urethane encapsulation that seals against moisture, dirt, dust, vibration, and heat, and an anodized heat-sink shell for reliability. Crane designed them to be points or module-triggered for 4, 6, and 8-cylinder engines with distributors.
MSD-8503 $410
Set a centrifugal and vacuum advance curve electronically.
These MSD Digital E-Curve distributors will drop right into your engine and fire up with three simple connections! Not only are there no external controls or boxes to mount and connect, but you can set a timing curve with the twist of a rotary dial! That's right, no more springs or stop bushings to fumble with. A new digital module lets you select from 20 different "centrifugal" curves and five vacuum curves--that's 100 combinations! Simply remove the cap to access the rotary dials and select a curve to match your application. You can also set an rpm limit that will protect your engine from over-rev damage caused by a missed shift or driveline failure.
MSD-8579 $270
Distributors with years of racing development.
MSD's Pro-Billet distributors share the same CNC machining techniques as the rest of the MSD distributor line. They feature a housing that is machined from high-quality 6061-T6 aluminum for durability and show-quality looks. Their oversized shaft receives a QPQ coating for friction reduction and corrosion resistance, with the added strength of two sealed ball bearings that guide the 0.500 in. shaft accurately at well over 10,000 rpm. An extra-long sintered bushing replaces the ball bearing at the bottom of Chevrolet models. TIG-welded on top of the polished steel shaft is MSD's accurate mechanical advance assembly. The weights are supported by nylon pads that allow the advance to operate smoothly throughout the rpm range. For all-out racing, the advance mechanism can also be easily locked out. To accurately trigger the ignition, a high-output magnetic pickup is bolted to the base. This pickup produces a precise trigger signal that will never vary more than one degree at any rpm. A durable gear is installed for performance applications, and an MSD red cap with brass terminals and race rotor is supplied. They're available in standard and small diameter models for applications with limited clearance, and require the use of a separate ignition box such as an MSD 6, 7, 8, or 10 Series ignition.
MSD-8352 $375
Stand-alone distributor performance from an industry legend.
These Pro-Billet Ready-to-Run distributors from MSD are the perfect upgrade for weak OE electronic distributors, outdated points distributors, and large HEIs or DuraSparks. All that is required is to install the distributor in the engine, and connect three wires and the coil! A maintenance-free magnetic pickup accurately triggers this ignition with increased output from the amplifier, easily outperforming stock ignitions. It will smooth out the engine's idle, improve starting, and perform at a much higher rpm. The housing is machined from billet 6061-T6 aluminum, using state-of-the-art CNC mills and lathes for a housing with no porosity or weak areas. For stability and endurance, an oversized steel shaft spins in a top-mounted sealed ball bearing, while an extra-long sintered bushing guides the shaft at the base of the housing. This shaft also receives a QPQ coating for low friction wear and resistance against corrosion from humidity and ozone buildup. They feature MSD's adjustable mechanical advance, which allows you to custom-tailor an ignition curve to match your engine's needs. Most models are also available with a vacuum advance canister to help improve economy.
LS2 bare block = 12568950
LS2 crate motor = 19156261 (formerly 12499750)
LS2 longblock assembly = 89017654
LS2 camshaft = 12574519
LS2 timing chain = 12586482
LSx lifter = 17122490
LS2 front cover = 12600325
LS2 rear cover (same as LS1/LS6) = 12572014
LS2 90mm throttle body with actuator (same as LS7) = 12570790
LS2 throttle body attachment fastener x4 = 11519971
LS2 throttle body attachment seal = 12576549
LS2 MAP sensor = 16212460
LS2 intake manifold = 89017648 or 12589181
LS2 intake to cylinder head gasket x8 = 12580833
LS2 intake manifold attachment bolt x10 = 12552344
LS2 intake manifold sight shield, LH = 12568998
LS2 intake manifold sight shield, RH = 12569246
LS2/LS7 valley cover = 12570471
LS2 fuel injector assembly x8 = 12569113
LS2 fuel injector o-rings (orange) = 89017587
LS2 fuel injector retainer clip x8 = 24503227
LS2 fuel rail = 12572174
LS2 fuel rail attachment bolt x4 = 12590276
LS2 front coolant tube = 12578838
LS2 rear coolant plugs x2 = 12563325
LS2 polished rear wheel = 9594349
LS2 valve springs (same as LS6) = 12586484
LS2 valve pushrod cover guide (lifter tray) = 12595365
LS2 cylinder heads (same as LS6) = 12564825
LS2 cylinder intake valve (same as LS1) = 12563063
LS2 water pump = 89017457
2005 Corvette C6 LS2 exhaust manifold, LH = 12569388
2005 Corvette C6 LS2 exhaust manifold, RH = 12576061
2004-05 GTO LS1/LS2 exhaust manifold, LH = 12563277
2004-05 GTO LS1/LS2 exhaust manifold, RH = 12563278
2003-05 SSR LH6/LS2 exhaust manifold, LH = 12567483
2003-05 SSR LH6/LS2 exhaust manifold, RH = 12567484
C6 LS2 oil pan (has shallow rear sump) (kit with bolts/gasket) = 12581810
C6 LS2 oil pick-up screen (same used on LS6) = 12558750
C6 LS2 oil deflector (same as used on LS6/LS1) = 12558189
C6 LS2 dipstick = 12570788
C6 LS2 dipstick tube = 12570787
SSR/Trailblazer 5.3L/LS2 oil pan (has front sump with hole for 4wd front axle) = 12579723
GTO LS1/LS2 oil pan (has front sump) = 12581209
2005 GTO LS2 PCM = 92180030
2005 GTO LS2 ECM = 12597883
LS2/LS7 spark plug wires = 89018058
LS2 flywheel = 12571611
LS7 bare block = 12571246 or 17802854
LS7 crate motor = 17802397 GM LIST: $17,495.00 $12,494.99
LS7 500hp smallblock = 12578105
LS7 camshaft = 12571251
LS7 cylinder head (bare, without valves) = 12578450
LS7 titanium connecting rod = 12586258
LS7 intake valve = 12591644
LS7 exhuast valve = 12578455
LS7 intake rocker arm = 12579615
LS7 exhaust rocker arm = 12579617
LS7 rocker bolt (m8x1.25x34) = 11588791
LS7 pushrod = 12593344
LSx lifter = 17122490
LS7 valve spring = 12578457
LS7 intake valve lash cap = 12596509
LS2/LS7 valley cover = 12570471
LS7 fuel rail = 12569124
LS7 fuel injector = 12576341
LS7 intake manifold = 12569011
LS7 90mm throttle body (same as LS2) = 12570790
LS7 front cover = 12593546
LS7 crankshaft = 12568820
LS7 clutch and pressure plate kit = 24233650
LS7 engine oil tank = 12603281
LS7 oil pan = 12596689 GM LIST: $584.28 $346.36
LS7 oil pump = 12598212 GM LIST: $399.60 $236.88
LS7 auxiliary engine oil tank hose = 15210117
LS7 auxiliary engine oil tank hose = 15210122
LS7 dry sump tank = 12603281 GM LIST: $1,267.93 $751.63
LS7 outlet and inlet cooling line = 15210122
LS7 outlet oil line = 15210117
LS7 engine cover ('sight shield'), LH = 12574619
LS7 engine cover ('sight shield'), RH = 12574620
LS2/LS7 spark plug wires = 89018058
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